Last Saturday after a youth football game, one of my friends and I took our 11-year-old sons to Hooters for lunch. Both boys knew what Hooters is known for and one of them actively wanted to go while the other didn't show any outward signs of interest but perhaps he was just good at hiding it. In any case, we had a decent lunch and joked about young boys hanging around with well endowed girls. Before leaving our waitress obliged us by taking a picture with the boys.
- Two boys who like owls.
Days later, I told my sister-in-law about it and her immediate reaction was, "How could you?"
Had I made a mistake and encouraged my son to think of women as objects to be gawked at and joked about by men (or boys), or was it just some harmless fun and perhaps I had even gained an insight into where my son on the eve of puberty stands on this issue?
My 11 year boy has reached the age where girls at school are showing interest in him but I am not sure if he reciprocates at all. The trip to Hooters, I saw, as an opportunity to see how he conducts himself around women. If he drooled and couldn't take his eyes off the waitress, then that would be an unmistakable cue to me to start preparing a birds and the bees talk. If he acted embarrassed and shy, then that would be a sign that such a pointed talk could wait a bit. So what happened?
Not much at all. After we paid the bill and headed out, my son turned to his friend and said, "That was messed up."
To be fair, I should also ask myself if I would take my 10-year-old daughter to a place that featured muscular men in tight shorts serving her food. I would have no problem with that. Again, I would be curious as to her level of interest rather than fearful that the trip to spark a heightened awareness of men at a too-early age.
I just don't see these types of trips as changing anything. Rather, I am sure that my children's interest in all things sexual is stamped in their DNA somewhere and not subject to rise and fall based on how many boobs they see over a cheeseburger. In fact, in a world where sex is used to sell anything and everything, I don't think my son saw anything in the restaurant that he couldn't see on tv, youtube, at the beach, or anywhere else.
I have to say I was surprised how many families I saw eating at tables near us, and nobody seemed to bat an eye at two boys drinking root beer at such an establishment. In the end, I would rather my kids be exposed to such things and see their reaction rather than driving through McDonald's for yet another Happy Meal in which nothing is gained but a 1,000 extra calories of processed food.
Update: My son told me tonight that he regrets the trip to Hooters. We ran into his football coaches at the restaurant, and they have razzed him about it ever since. "This will take a long time to go away," he said, adding that "I can see teasing me about it at the next football practice but not three practices later." I could only tell him, "That's just what guys do."
I blog regularly here. I have written more than 25 posts on how hard to push your kids into competitive sports, why 10 years olds need a cellphone, why you should burn your stroller, how my kids learned about the Great Depression, and other serious and funny topics for parents of babies on up to teenagers.
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written by BellaDaddy, September 23, 2009
Personally, I think it is all "much ado about nuttin"...(pun intended)...seriously? There is much worse going on in television, movies and most certainly video games...and no offense to women, but I have seen, and so has my daughter, MUCH MORE exposed on the streets, in retail...in everyday life. Have said it before, and have agreed with many who share the same..."It all starts at home"...explain to the child the "rationality" (even if there is none) and hope they grow up knowing right from wrong. What/when something is appropriate and what/when it is not......HOPE! My THREE year old saw a commercial for a Bra on TV the other day and screamed at me that she never wanted to have "Big Boobies"...she only ever wants smally boobies...(true story AND it was a Victoria's Seceret Ad)
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written by robkphd, September 23, 2009
I wouldn't go to Hooters myself much less take my son. It is a matter of values and how we see and treat other human beings. Admiring beauty is one thing. Treating women as objects to amuse me is not. Teaching our sons to do so is even worse. It doesn't matter that there is worse on TV. Flip the commercials, change the channel or turn off the stupid thing.
Guys, we've got to teach our kids some values. Treating women as objects or frequenting establishments that do so is bonehead fathering.
Someone should call it like it is.
Guys, we've got to teach our kids some values. Treating women as objects or frequenting establishments that do so is bonehead fathering.
Someone should call it like it is.
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written by Russ, September 23, 2009
Not a big hooters fan myself. If I go out to eat,I want good food. Hooters ain't it.
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written by Daddy Files, September 23, 2009
Oh stop whining people.
Boneheaded fathering? You're so off base here. And if you think a trip to Hooters with an 11-year-old is immoral then get thee to a frickin nunnery and be done with it.
Hooters sucks, but mainly because their food is overpriced and not worth the money. It has nothing to do with the waitresses. There are SO MANY families at Hooters each time I've been there. Sure the waitresses usually have big boobs accentuated by a tight tank top and shorter than average shorts, but so what? Half the people walking down the street in my town have just come from the beach and they're wearing next to nothing. Does that mean I shouldn't take my kids to the beach?? Of course not! Grow up people.
Boneheaded fathering? You're so off base here. And if you think a trip to Hooters with an 11-year-old is immoral then get thee to a frickin nunnery and be done with it.
Hooters sucks, but mainly because their food is overpriced and not worth the money. It has nothing to do with the waitresses. There are SO MANY families at Hooters each time I've been there. Sure the waitresses usually have big boobs accentuated by a tight tank top and shorter than average shorts, but so what? Half the people walking down the street in my town have just come from the beach and they're wearing next to nothing. Does that mean I shouldn't take my kids to the beach?? Of course not! Grow up people.
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written by ciara, September 23, 2009
double crap...gonna agree w df one more time on this one. far worse things out there than hooters (not that i've ever been or will because i've heard it was overpriced plus there isn't one near by) from what i've heard, lots of families go to eat there. and just because these women work at hooters, what kind example of women are they?? is that any worse than seeing those women who dress like a hooch everyday out on the streets, women in barely-there bikinis? we are all quick to judge someone based on the type of place they work at, how they dress, etc. for all you know, one of those hooter girls could be studying to be a doctor, lawyer, or whatever. if you don't want any kind of sex exposed to your children, then i guess you better keep them indoors.
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written by GoodSaints, September 23, 2009
As a Catholic father of 4 young children, I am cautious as far as going to the beach or anywhere for that matter. I'm not going to take my kid's to a busy beach in the middle of summer when you don't know what you're going to see. I'm definitely not going to take them to a restaurant that is famous for female body parts. Just because today's society seems to approve of the TV, movies, music, video games, clothing, etc. doesn't mean my kids need to see it or are ready to see it. It might be more inconvenient and harder work to protect my kids from the garbage out there, but it's worth it to me.
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written by John Jansen, September 23, 2009
Ditto RobK's comments.
And WeaselMomma's observation that "Those waitresses are somebody else's little girls" is worth repeating.
We wouldn't want any man ogling our daughters. No father would.
And that's why eating at places like Hooters is a self-evidently bad idea.
And WeaselMomma's observation that "Those waitresses are somebody else's little girls" is worth repeating.
We wouldn't want any man ogling our daughters. No father would.
And that's why eating at places like Hooters is a self-evidently bad idea.
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written by Christian, September 23, 2009
Why did you get the picture taken with the waitress? Do they know her? Relative, or friend of the family? Did she make their time so memorable through her good service that she helped to create a great bonding moment? Or is it simply that she is a cute young woman with a decent sized chest that your sons may have been oggling at. Or were you? seriously, who is the photo for, and what was its purpose? The simple FACT of the matter is that you went there with the idea of objectifying women, and demonstrating it to your son. Doesn't matter that you see worse elsewhere (logical fallacy of poisoning the well). Doesn't matter that 'lots of other families do it so it must be fine (logical fallacy of appeal to numbers).' It is just one more step, one more brick in the process of creating an idea for your son that women are objects to serve the pleasure of men -- AND that there is a standard of beauty to which most women don't measure up -- including, possibly his future wife. You also just showed him to whatever degree that it is possible to lust after other women even when you are married. Being a father, being a Man requires you to have sexual integrity and dignity -- something that our culture makes supremely difficult today. Ask yourself how you modeled integrity for your son today.
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written by BellaDaddy, September 23, 2009
WOW, comments here have made me think of what it must have been like back in the 50's. Rock and Roll? Bikini's at the beach?? Joy Rides??? Hip Grinding and Booty Shaking on TV? OH THE SCANDAL! As a father of a daughter, I take more pride in knowing I will have instilled in my girl the idea that people are differenmt. They make decisions for themselves. Be they good or bad, it is not our place to judge. I will love and nurture my child and hope she takes a path worthy. Whose worthy path? Her own!
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written by Peter Brown, September 23, 2009
Sorry, folks, I don't buy the "there's so much worse out there" line. There's a huge difference between my kids running across some ad of a barely-dressed lingerie model and my choosing to take them to a restaurant that's really not known for its food. The first one is just something they happened across; there are lots of things in the world that maybe aren't all that smart morally, but we're not going to live in some bubble because other folks make choices we don't happen to agree with. (Hey, it's diversity in action.) But the second one is my choice.
I also think waiting until a kid is 11 for the birds-and-the-bees talk is (bluntly put) nuts. My two older kids (my youngest is 4) had a pretty solid knowledge of the birds and the bees long before that. Not because we forced the knowledge on them, but because we answered the questions they asked. (We also tried—and still try—not to answer the questions they don't ask, which gives them some real control over how much they want to know when.) If sex (and reproduction in general) is a subject that meets not with embarrassed silence but with respect as a gift and a part of life, it's a whole lot easier to explain the facts of life in a context where relationships and commitment are integral to sex, not bolted-on afterthoughts.
FWIW.
Peace,
--Peter
I also think waiting until a kid is 11 for the birds-and-the-bees talk is (bluntly put) nuts. My two older kids (my youngest is 4) had a pretty solid knowledge of the birds and the bees long before that. Not because we forced the knowledge on them, but because we answered the questions they asked. (We also tried—and still try—not to answer the questions they don't ask, which gives them some real control over how much they want to know when.) If sex (and reproduction in general) is a subject that meets not with embarrassed silence but with respect as a gift and a part of life, it's a whole lot easier to explain the facts of life in a context where relationships and commitment are integral to sex, not bolted-on afterthoughts.
FWIW.
Peace,
--Peter
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written by Keith Wilc*x, September 23, 2009
Ok, I'll say it, so glad you opened up this topic. I've taken my boys to hooters and they're 6 and 5. People who say women are objectified by this are only partially correct. These women, as far as I can tell, enjoy their jobs. They're not naked, just a big underdressed. Heck we've been there as a family, wife, me, kids. I don't see a problem. The people I have a problem with are the folks who seem to think they are the gatekeepers of decency. I happen to think there is nothing indecent about Hooters. tacky? yes. Indecent? No. It's a slightly tacky family restaurant and nobody's getting hurt in any way. Lighten up, people.
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written by Daddy Files, September 23, 2009
Wow. I can't believe how uptight some people are. Seriously, this is some Puritanical stuff going on right now.
First of all, just because a woman works at Hooters doesn't make her bad or dirty. She is not debasing herself by delivering food in a tank top. It's a job. She's not a prostitute (unless they've changed the menu since I've last been) or anything, so relax. You people are assuming a Hooters waitress can't be an aspiring doctor, lawyer or mother. It's absurd to be that judgmental.
Second, why do I have to remember she's someone's little girl? That makes no sense. She's not being sexually molested. She's not a stripper. No one is attacking her in way. They're looking at an attractive woman. That's not objectification, it's NATURE! It is in our nature to look at a man/woman we find attractive. There is nothing wrong with looking (note looking, not ogling and drooling on yourself).
Third, I take great issue with the person who said it teaches your son a bad lesson to "lust" after a woman. The only problem is that in this case, there was no lusting. There was a family dinner at Hooters. I, personally, have been to a strip club with my father when I was 18. My dad is a great father and one hell of a person. He's been married to my mom for 32 years and they're still together. But you know what? He's human! I know he looks at other women, because it's only natural. I also know he loves my mom and will never leave her. You can act all high and mighty and try to hide it from your kids when a pretty girl walks by on the street, but they know. It's better to be honest with them and explain to them how that shit really works than to pretend you're a robot who doesn't notice anything around him.
I'm a little worried that the Dad-Blogs convention is going to be pretty damn boring at this point. Doesn't anyone lighten up enough to have some fun???
First of all, just because a woman works at Hooters doesn't make her bad or dirty. She is not debasing herself by delivering food in a tank top. It's a job. She's not a prostitute (unless they've changed the menu since I've last been) or anything, so relax. You people are assuming a Hooters waitress can't be an aspiring doctor, lawyer or mother. It's absurd to be that judgmental.
Second, why do I have to remember she's someone's little girl? That makes no sense. She's not being sexually molested. She's not a stripper. No one is attacking her in way. They're looking at an attractive woman. That's not objectification, it's NATURE! It is in our nature to look at a man/woman we find attractive. There is nothing wrong with looking (note looking, not ogling and drooling on yourself).
Third, I take great issue with the person who said it teaches your son a bad lesson to "lust" after a woman. The only problem is that in this case, there was no lusting. There was a family dinner at Hooters. I, personally, have been to a strip club with my father when I was 18. My dad is a great father and one hell of a person. He's been married to my mom for 32 years and they're still together. But you know what? He's human! I know he looks at other women, because it's only natural. I also know he loves my mom and will never leave her. You can act all high and mighty and try to hide it from your kids when a pretty girl walks by on the street, but they know. It's better to be honest with them and explain to them how that shit really works than to pretend you're a robot who doesn't notice anything around him.
I'm a little worried that the Dad-Blogs convention is going to be pretty damn boring at this point. Doesn't anyone lighten up enough to have some fun???
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written by ciara, September 23, 2009
everyone's perception of morality and indecency is different. how does looking at someone of the opposite sex mean you're lusting after them? are you effing kidding me? i suppose if i were to ogle a woman's breasts that would make me lesbian. @keith-i'm w you on the folks who think they're the gatekeepers...everyone's entitled to their own opinion on this matter and as long as your not shoving your idea of morality and indecency down my throat, it's all good.
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written by Erick, September 23, 2009
Since you asked in the post, I'd say you made a mistake. Those girls may enjoy their job, but I teach my boys that women deserve better than that. If that's what they choose for themselves, so be it. But whether they know or recognize it, they're made for better.
@ciara: is morality ever for anything other than shoving down someone's throat? Every time I hear that phrase, it seems to be making a not-so-subtle argument that there is no such thing as a general morality that society should recognize. They're going to see naked women someday anyway, so what's wrong with taking them to a strip club? Seriously. I know it's not the same as Hooters, but is there a line? And if so, who decides it? Government? Church? You? There either is moral truth, or there is not. We don't each get to decide for ourselves. So who's going to shove it down our throats? (No pun intended.)
@ciara: is morality ever for anything other than shoving down someone's throat? Every time I hear that phrase, it seems to be making a not-so-subtle argument that there is no such thing as a general morality that society should recognize. They're going to see naked women someday anyway, so what's wrong with taking them to a strip club? Seriously. I know it's not the same as Hooters, but is there a line? And if so, who decides it? Government? Church? You? There either is moral truth, or there is not. We don't each get to decide for ourselves. So who's going to shove it down our throats? (No pun intended.)
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written by bobnthuan, September 23, 2009
As the author of the piece, I take everyone's comments to heart. If what I did was supported unanimously by everyone who read my blog, then there would be no point in writing it up in the first place.
I suppose that Hooters in this case stands in for anything that veers toward inappropriate or on the borderline of tastefulness. I could have written about taking an 11 year old to a PG-13 movie, for example. It is up to all of us as parents to make that call based on what we know about our children and the things we teach them at home.
As I said, the two boys had never been to Hooters but they both knew what it is all about. Driving past it and ignoring it or telling them that we disapprove of how women are treated there might only have served to make them more intensely curious. But taking them inside to see exactly what they had heard about tends to demystify things and puts it into a context that is easier for parents to talk about later. It is not like their views of women will be formed over a lunch at Hooters. It is up to the parent to know their kids and step in and set them straight if the wrong lessons are learned.
Just my opinion. Thanks for commenting.
I suppose that Hooters in this case stands in for anything that veers toward inappropriate or on the borderline of tastefulness. I could have written about taking an 11 year old to a PG-13 movie, for example. It is up to all of us as parents to make that call based on what we know about our children and the things we teach them at home.
As I said, the two boys had never been to Hooters but they both knew what it is all about. Driving past it and ignoring it or telling them that we disapprove of how women are treated there might only have served to make them more intensely curious. But taking them inside to see exactly what they had heard about tends to demystify things and puts it into a context that is easier for parents to talk about later. It is not like their views of women will be formed over a lunch at Hooters. It is up to the parent to know their kids and step in and set them straight if the wrong lessons are learned.
Just my opinion. Thanks for commenting.
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written by Daddy Files, September 23, 2009
Erick: Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you've stated yours. However, you said:
"Those girls may enjoy their job, but I teach my boys that women deserve better than that. If that's what they choose for themselves, so be it. But whether they know or recognize it, they're made for better."
I have a HUGE problem with that and frankly, you sound like a first class jerk and a complete elitist. Basically you just said you're teaching your boys that women deserve better than to be waitresses. Because that's all Hooters girls are. Waitresses.
And then, as if that wasn't bad enough, you go on to insult their intelligence even further by saying "whether they recognize it or not." Because obviously a Hooters girl is too dumb to have any kind of self-awareness right? A girl who works at Hooters couldn't possibly make up her own mind about things. But thank goodness she's got you -- the moral compass of humanity -- to determine what is right/wrong, better/worse for other people.
Do you have any idea how pompous you sound? There is no moral truth. Morals differ depending on the individual. Each family has its own set of morals. But it sounds as if people such as yourself wish they could impose their set of morals on everyone else, and that's unfortunate not to mention arrogant and off-putting.
You don't want to bring your kid to Hooters? Fine. But I truly hope you're not teaching them that anyone who views the world differently is bad or wrong.
"Those girls may enjoy their job, but I teach my boys that women deserve better than that. If that's what they choose for themselves, so be it. But whether they know or recognize it, they're made for better."
I have a HUGE problem with that and frankly, you sound like a first class jerk and a complete elitist. Basically you just said you're teaching your boys that women deserve better than to be waitresses. Because that's all Hooters girls are. Waitresses.
And then, as if that wasn't bad enough, you go on to insult their intelligence even further by saying "whether they recognize it or not." Because obviously a Hooters girl is too dumb to have any kind of self-awareness right? A girl who works at Hooters couldn't possibly make up her own mind about things. But thank goodness she's got you -- the moral compass of humanity -- to determine what is right/wrong, better/worse for other people.
Do you have any idea how pompous you sound? There is no moral truth. Morals differ depending on the individual. Each family has its own set of morals. But it sounds as if people such as yourself wish they could impose their set of morals on everyone else, and that's unfortunate not to mention arrogant and off-putting.
You don't want to bring your kid to Hooters? Fine. But I truly hope you're not teaching them that anyone who views the world differently is bad or wrong.
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written by Mr. H, September 23, 2009
If raising my sons to be pure of mind and heart and raising them to respect women for who they are is considered puritanical and 1950's, then sign me up. I'll wear those labels as a badge of honor!
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written by ciara, September 23, 2009
daddyfiles: that's what i was trying to say >>>> "There is no moral truth. Morals differ depending on the individual. Each family has its own set of morals."
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written by SurprisedMom, September 23, 2009
Much ado about nothing. If you want to go to Hooters, go. If you want to take your family, go. If you don't, then don't. What is the big deal? The women are waitresses, who applied for the jobs. They are waitresses that wear tank tops. If you make a big to do out of of this, your kids will, too. If you don't, it won't make an impression. I don't think Hooters is selling anything but average food.
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written by Daddy Files, September 24, 2009
Mr. H: I hate to break it to you but you can raise your sons to be pure of heart/respectful of women and still go to a place like Hooters. I don't see how a trip to Hooters is disrespectful to women. They're not indentured servants over there you know? They applied for the job on their own. And they're not naked. In fact I'm willing to bet some of the customers in any given Hooters will be more provocatively dressed than the waitresses.
The point is if you think your kids will never leer at women (or men, you never know) then you are out of your ever-loving mind. And frankly, teaching them that it's wrong and disrespectful to look at and appreciate a beautiful woman is crazy.
It's unfortunate (although expected) that some of the more conservative folks have turned this into a referendum on morality and Hooters, when the author was focusing more on parenting and rites of passage. It's fine to disagree and state you'll never bring your kids to Hooters, but I have a problem when others not only judge the author and call him a bad parent, but then go on to insult anyone who does or ever has worked at Hooters. That's small-minded and it just isn't right.
The point is if you think your kids will never leer at women (or men, you never know) then you are out of your ever-loving mind. And frankly, teaching them that it's wrong and disrespectful to look at and appreciate a beautiful woman is crazy.
It's unfortunate (although expected) that some of the more conservative folks have turned this into a referendum on morality and Hooters, when the author was focusing more on parenting and rites of passage. It's fine to disagree and state you'll never bring your kids to Hooters, but I have a problem when others not only judge the author and call him a bad parent, but then go on to insult anyone who does or ever has worked at Hooters. That's small-minded and it just isn't right.
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written by GoodSaints, September 24, 2009
This quote says it all.
And our country (and on a greater scale the world) will suffer for it.
There is no moral truth. Morals differ depending on the individual. Each family has its own set of morals.
And our country (and on a greater scale the world) will suffer for it.
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written by Daddy Files, September 24, 2009
GoodSaints: Our country and the world will suffer because we don't all share the same morals? That is outrageous and ridiculous!
You seem to want everyone to conform to the same beliefs as yourself, and that is more dangerous than anything. The great thing about this country is that everyone can believe what they want to believe. Some people think homosexuality is immoral. Others still believe mixed marriages are immoral. Swearing, burning a flag, owning guns...it goes right down the list. My point is there's no right or wrong, there are just differences of opinions, beliefs and values. And that's a good thing.
When everyone in our country begins believing the same things and there are no differences of opinions, that is when the world will suffer.
You seem to want everyone to conform to the same beliefs as yourself, and that is more dangerous than anything. The great thing about this country is that everyone can believe what they want to believe. Some people think homosexuality is immoral. Others still believe mixed marriages are immoral. Swearing, burning a flag, owning guns...it goes right down the list. My point is there's no right or wrong, there are just differences of opinions, beliefs and values. And that's a good thing.
When everyone in our country begins believing the same things and there are no differences of opinions, that is when the world will suffer.
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written by GoodSaints, September 24, 2009
No one has to believe the same as me, but we do need to have some form of agreed upon values. Differences in opinions and beliefs is one thing, but values are needed to prevent society from crumbling.
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written by John Jansen, September 24, 2009
Daddy Files said: "There is no moral truth. Morals differ depending on the individual."
Oh? So then we can't say that rape is always wrong?
That molesting children is always wrong?
That cutting off your neighbor's head with a chainsaw for no good reason is always wrong?
Daddy Files also said: "Basically you [Erick] just said you're teaching your boys that women deserve better than to be waitresses. Because that's all Hooters girls are. Waitresses."
First, you're misrereading what Erick actually said. But second, and more importantly, there's a serious problem in saying that "all Hooters girls are" is "waitresses".
No person can be reduced to his or her [insert name of their occupation here]. The woman who brings you your food at a restaurant isn't just a waitress. She's a person. The guy who fixes your car isn't just a mechanic. He's a person. The guys who pick up your trash aren't just garbagemen. They're people.
If in our minds we reduce the people we encounter to being whatever their job title is, it makes it a lot easier to ogle them and convince ourselves that all we're doing is "admiring their natural beauty" or whatever. In the same way, this also makes it a lot easier -- especially if we're dealing with people in service occupations -- to act indifferently to them, or be rude to them, or merely to fail to show them simple courtesy by telling them "Thank you".
Why do the women who work at Hooters see nothing wrong (apparently) with the whole -- shall we say -- Hooters "scene"?
Beats me. I can't read their minds.
But I do know that it's not a scene that's likely to instill in the men who go there a sincere appreciation for their inner beauty.
Quite the contrary, in fact.
Oh? So then we can't say that rape is always wrong?
That molesting children is always wrong?
That cutting off your neighbor's head with a chainsaw for no good reason is always wrong?
Daddy Files also said: "Basically you [Erick] just said you're teaching your boys that women deserve better than to be waitresses. Because that's all Hooters girls are. Waitresses."
First, you're misrereading what Erick actually said. But second, and more importantly, there's a serious problem in saying that "all Hooters girls are" is "waitresses".
No person can be reduced to his or her [insert name of their occupation here]. The woman who brings you your food at a restaurant isn't just a waitress. She's a person. The guy who fixes your car isn't just a mechanic. He's a person. The guys who pick up your trash aren't just garbagemen. They're people.
If in our minds we reduce the people we encounter to being whatever their job title is, it makes it a lot easier to ogle them and convince ourselves that all we're doing is "admiring their natural beauty" or whatever. In the same way, this also makes it a lot easier -- especially if we're dealing with people in service occupations -- to act indifferently to them, or be rude to them, or merely to fail to show them simple courtesy by telling them "Thank you".
Why do the women who work at Hooters see nothing wrong (apparently) with the whole -- shall we say -- Hooters "scene"?
Beats me. I can't read their minds.
But I do know that it's not a scene that's likely to instill in the men who go there a sincere appreciation for their inner beauty.
Quite the contrary, in fact.
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written by Daddy Files, September 24, 2009
John: Rape is illegal. Molesting children is illegal. They are crimes with set punishments. In that capacity, those things are wrong because they are against the law. And by the way, would cutting your neighbor's head off with a chainsaw be wrong if it was in self defense? A little exaggerated I grant you, but plausible. So your own examples don't even hold water.
Second, when I said "just a waitress" it was in response to the previous commenter who was insinuating they were dirty or stealth strippers. So the word "just" was to accentuate the fact that her role at Hooters is consistent with waitresses at any other establishment. I wasn't knocking waitresses or stereotyping them. I was a waiter and my wife was a waitress for years.
Men don't ogle women solely based on their occupation. Men ogle a woman (or man) they find physically attractive. It's as simple as that.
And for GoodSaints: we'll have to agree to disagree big time here. We need an agreed upon set of laws so that society doesn't devolve into chaos and people are held accountable for their illegal actions. But morals? You can't legislate morality and you can't force feed it to people. For instance, I am pro choice and pro gay marriage. I've read your blog and I've seen that your "values" mean you're pro life and very much against gay marriage. In fact, in one of your posts on your site you equated gay marriage to "anti family." I will teach my son to love and respect everyone regardless of political views or sexual orientation. That is a value I want to make damn sure I teach him. And that's why I'm ever thankful that we don't all share the same values, because if we adopted your particular set we'd condemn people just for being who they are.
Second, when I said "just a waitress" it was in response to the previous commenter who was insinuating they were dirty or stealth strippers. So the word "just" was to accentuate the fact that her role at Hooters is consistent with waitresses at any other establishment. I wasn't knocking waitresses or stereotyping them. I was a waiter and my wife was a waitress for years.
Men don't ogle women solely based on their occupation. Men ogle a woman (or man) they find physically attractive. It's as simple as that.
And for GoodSaints: we'll have to agree to disagree big time here. We need an agreed upon set of laws so that society doesn't devolve into chaos and people are held accountable for their illegal actions. But morals? You can't legislate morality and you can't force feed it to people. For instance, I am pro choice and pro gay marriage. I've read your blog and I've seen that your "values" mean you're pro life and very much against gay marriage. In fact, in one of your posts on your site you equated gay marriage to "anti family." I will teach my son to love and respect everyone regardless of political views or sexual orientation. That is a value I want to make damn sure I teach him. And that's why I'm ever thankful that we don't all share the same values, because if we adopted your particular set we'd condemn people just for being who they are.
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written by Erick, September 24, 2009
@daddyfiles: the issue is not that she's a waitress. It's the skimpy (read: tiny) outfit that serves only to arouse. Women deserve better than to be sex objects, and that's all a Hooters job does for them. And if you want to push the "too dumb" issue, sure I'll bite. Most of them aren't aware of the dignity they were born with as women. It's a damn shame, but it's true. So please tell me how you can raise a boy to respect women and take him to Hooters? What is he respecting? Her tits? The bottom of her ass hanging out of her shorts? The way she makes herself flirt with those middle-aged guys so she can take home a bigger tip?
And the question you never answered is, who decides right or wrong. You say there is no moral truth, but we should have laws. Where do you think those laws come from?!? Society agrees that it is morally wrong to kill someone, to rape, to steal, to speed, to double-park. Those recognitions of morality are adopted into law. You may not agree with every law, but you have to recognize its source. Or are you saying that the law is arbitrary?
And the question you never answered is, who decides right or wrong. You say there is no moral truth, but we should have laws. Where do you think those laws come from?!? Society agrees that it is morally wrong to kill someone, to rape, to steal, to speed, to double-park. Those recognitions of morality are adopted into law. You may not agree with every law, but you have to recognize its source. Or are you saying that the law is arbitrary?
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written by GoodSaints, September 24, 2009
@Daddy Files: I teach my children to love all God has created. I also teach them that people do things differently than we do and believe things differently than we do. I also teach them not to condemn people, but to pray for them. I also teach them what is right and wrong, not based on morals that I only decide, but those that have determined by God, Society, and Law. Needless to say, it keeps me very busy!
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written by VirginiaDad, September 25, 2009
I'm not Catholic (as some of the above commentators), but I wouldn't eat in Hooters, nor would I want my wife to work there. Much better food can be had elsewhere for the same price, so I can't really see the point to going to, as someone put it, such a tacky place.
As a side note, I worked in a restaurant and I got good tips by providing good service. I never once wore tight pants and shoved my junk on the table to get a big gratuity.
As a side note, I worked in a restaurant and I got good tips by providing good service. I never once wore tight pants and shoved my junk on the table to get a big gratuity.
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written by Daddy Files, September 25, 2009
Erick: "Most of them aren't aware of the dignity they were born with as women." Are you kidding me with this? I had a friend who worked at Hooters in college. She's smarter than you and I put together. She currently works as a contractor for the Department of Defense. And I can tell you without doubt, she is very much aware of her dignity and she took that job as a way to make some extra money while putting herself through school. How is that dumb? How is that undignified? It's no different than a waitress at some other restaurant wearing a low-cut shirt in an attempt to increase her tips with male customers. There's nothing wrong with that. She's not stripping for cash and there's no prostitution involved. In short, there's no harm.
And I have news for you: there are many times when women WANT to be noticed, complimented and gawked at. What's wrong with that? Nothing. You can teach your kids to notice an attractive woman while remaining respectful. As a previous poster said, if the parents don't make a big deal of it then the kids won't either.
Judges and juries decide right and wrong on the legal level. But outside of a court room, right and wrong is decided in each of our homes on a family-by-family basis. Sure society agrees it is wrong to kill someone, but murdering someone in self defense isn't wrong. Stealing is generally considered wrong, but what if a parent steals a loaf of bread for her starving kids because she has no money? There are many people who feel that is not immoral. What I'm saying is there are too many shades of gray to have universally accepted moral truths. That's why as parents, we do the best we can to instill the values we hold dear as individuals. And those values and morals differ from household to household.
And I have news for you: there are many times when women WANT to be noticed, complimented and gawked at. What's wrong with that? Nothing. You can teach your kids to notice an attractive woman while remaining respectful. As a previous poster said, if the parents don't make a big deal of it then the kids won't either.
Judges and juries decide right and wrong on the legal level. But outside of a court room, right and wrong is decided in each of our homes on a family-by-family basis. Sure society agrees it is wrong to kill someone, but murdering someone in self defense isn't wrong. Stealing is generally considered wrong, but what if a parent steals a loaf of bread for her starving kids because she has no money? There are many people who feel that is not immoral. What I'm saying is there are too many shades of gray to have universally accepted moral truths. That's why as parents, we do the best we can to instill the values we hold dear as individuals. And those values and morals differ from household to household.
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written by MileHighDad, September 25, 2009
That is exactly why I took my son to Hooters for lunch today after seeing this post yesterday, we like Owls! Right?
Oh to be 21 again!
Oh to be 21 again!
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written by Tommy, October 10, 2009
You titled this "My 11-Year-Old Son's FIRST Trip to Hooters". I pray for his sake it is his LAST!
As a personal "survivor" of a life-long battle with pornography, I can most assuredly tell you that exposure such as what you have provided your son (and his young friend) just might be the beginnings of a lifetime of Hell. Sexual things we see (pictures, movies, a bikini-clad woman on the beach, waitresses) will NEVER be erased from our memory. This is most true with boys and men; we are wired in a way that images are so deeply ingrained in our memory that they will always be with us.
How would you feel if 5, 10, 20 or more years from now your son came to you and said, "Dad, I've been struggling with an addiction that's absolutely torn me up inside. I can't sleep anymore. I don't respect my wife and I can't stop looking at other women. I am a hypocrite and nobody knows my darkest secret. I hate myself for who I have become. It all started that day you took me to Hooter's and I remember just sitting there and looking at all those women. Something inside me changed that day."
For me, it all started when I was about 12 years old. A friend of mine showed me a postage stamp-sized cut out from a magazine of a girl named Heather. She had long light brown hair and was wearing a green bikini. I remember it like it was yesterday--and that was 34 years ago. That’s all it took to get me started.
So my point is: Why risk starting the precious gift of your son off on what might be a life of torment? Protect him. For God’s sake he’s only eleven years old. The last thing he needs is another trip to Hooter’s.
As a personal "survivor" of a life-long battle with pornography, I can most assuredly tell you that exposure such as what you have provided your son (and his young friend) just might be the beginnings of a lifetime of Hell. Sexual things we see (pictures, movies, a bikini-clad woman on the beach, waitresses) will NEVER be erased from our memory. This is most true with boys and men; we are wired in a way that images are so deeply ingrained in our memory that they will always be with us.
How would you feel if 5, 10, 20 or more years from now your son came to you and said, "Dad, I've been struggling with an addiction that's absolutely torn me up inside. I can't sleep anymore. I don't respect my wife and I can't stop looking at other women. I am a hypocrite and nobody knows my darkest secret. I hate myself for who I have become. It all started that day you took me to Hooter's and I remember just sitting there and looking at all those women. Something inside me changed that day."
For me, it all started when I was about 12 years old. A friend of mine showed me a postage stamp-sized cut out from a magazine of a girl named Heather. She had long light brown hair and was wearing a green bikini. I remember it like it was yesterday--and that was 34 years ago. That’s all it took to get me started.
So my point is: Why risk starting the precious gift of your son off on what might be a life of torment? Protect him. For God’s sake he’s only eleven years old. The last thing he needs is another trip to Hooter’s.
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written by Daddy Files, October 10, 2009
Tommy: I tried to write this in a way that doesn't belittle your "addiction" to porn, but I couldn't. So I'll just be honest...
Your rationale is ludicrous and nonsensical. Forget the trip to Hooters for a second. You said your addiction started when you saw a woman in a bikini. Not a naked woman, just a woman in a bikini. So my question to you is in what universe can you raise a son and avoid him seeing a scantily clad woman? Do you plan on never going to the beach? Are you going to keep him chained up on hot summer days when women dress in skimpy clothes on the street? Will you scope out every destination beforehand to make sure no women are wearing low cut shirts? Give me a break.
I sneaked a peek at my first Playboy at the age of 9, and like you, I remember it clear as day. Always will. And guess what? That's not a bad thing. I'm happily married and -- gasp -- I even watch porn sometimes. But by your logic anyone who looks at a woman in a bikini is going to live the life of the damned and not be able to carry on a normal relationship because of an addiction to porn.
I'm sorry you have a personal issue with this but your experience is not the norm. It is irresponsible to make it seem that way.
Your rationale is ludicrous and nonsensical. Forget the trip to Hooters for a second. You said your addiction started when you saw a woman in a bikini. Not a naked woman, just a woman in a bikini. So my question to you is in what universe can you raise a son and avoid him seeing a scantily clad woman? Do you plan on never going to the beach? Are you going to keep him chained up on hot summer days when women dress in skimpy clothes on the street? Will you scope out every destination beforehand to make sure no women are wearing low cut shirts? Give me a break.
I sneaked a peek at my first Playboy at the age of 9, and like you, I remember it clear as day. Always will. And guess what? That's not a bad thing. I'm happily married and -- gasp -- I even watch porn sometimes. But by your logic anyone who looks at a woman in a bikini is going to live the life of the damned and not be able to carry on a normal relationship because of an addiction to porn.
I'm sorry you have a personal issue with this but your experience is not the norm. It is irresponsible to make it seem that way.
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I actually have nothing against the restaurants theme. If parents want to take their families there, fine. It's not like the women are naked, but the waitresses do play up the theme. That's fine, they are making a living, but it's not the example of women that I want to promote to my son (or my daughters).
Would you encourage your daughter to work at Hooters or any similar establishment? Why or why why not? I understand the 'that's my boy' thought process, but what's with the double standard? Those waitresses are somebody else's little girls.