Growing up, my family was my mom and me. But I guess we don't qualify because of this teacher's definition. I'm all for non-PC, but when talking about what is a family, there are soooo many options.

I am anti-gay for personal reasons. “God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve” is what comes to mind, and I hate using common anti-anything phrases like that. I would also like to point out that the Christian faith teaches Tolerance more than other faiths. They teach tolerance, not acceptance.

We are not supposed to judge people, that right is reserved for God alone. But, that does not mean that we should accept that which we believe is wrong. We should also not Force people to accept what they believe is wrong.

I will not condemn you for being gay, but I do not thing you deserver any special recognitions or right because you chose to be gay. Yes, I think being gay is a choice not a genetic disposition.

Family could mean anything. Gay, straight, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles...you can't have a narrow definition. Hell, I consider my good friends family members. I don't think the teacher meant any harm, but trying to narrowly define such a thing as family is fruitless.

Zerzix: You don't have to believe anything. But when your beliefs insult a whole group of people who haven't done anything wrong, then that's unacceptable. If you don't like gay people, then don't be gay. But they're not asking for special privileges, they're asking for basic rights. They're asking for equality, and they're entitled to it.

@daddy files: and on that point we disagree, I beleive what they are doing is moraly wrong. My Moral values do not mesh well with thiers, or yours, so lest just agree to disagree on htat poin.

As for the definition of family, I am kind of open to what might be considered a family. I am less worried about the Gay/Straight issue than I am about the Single parent families. I came form one of the Broken Homes of the late ’80, and my mother re-married a NAVY man who was gone much of the time during our teen tears (Desert Storm and all). Why are they leaving out the families that may only have one adult in the home? That is a much bigger issue in my book than the Gay Agenda with their definition of family.

I think the teacher was right to give a vague, open ended description. I don't think that there was any 'gay agenda' in her remark. Certainly children of that age have zero concept of sex period, let alone homosexual vs heterosexual vs bisexual (and the list goes on). I do think that the topic (i.e. the families specific description) should be left to the parents.

A family is a group of people who love and care for each other.

Zerzix: No offense, but who cares what you deem morally wrong? And in the same sense, who cares what I think either. Everyone is entitled to an OPINION.

But when opinions stop us from treating all human being equally in the eyes of the LAW, then that is a problem. So they're gay. Big deal! They're doing their thing, you're doing yours. Why is it a bad thing for them to have equal standing? Why is it a bad thing for them to adopt kids and raise them in a loving home? If you haven't noticed, there's more than one gay dad on here and I think it's outrageous to tell them they are second class citizens somehow.

The bigger question -- and I've asked this many times with no good answer from critics -- is HOW DO GAY PEOPLE NEGATIVELY AFFECT YOU? That's all I want to know. How do gay people impact your life in any way, shape or form?

I look forward to your answer.

It always slays me how "love the neighbor" and "do unto others as you would have done unto you" goes out the window when it comes to giving basic civil and moral rights to someone who's lifestyle you don't agree with. Let's look at the "Gay Agenda": they want to be treated as human beings; they want to be able to legally marry; they want to be able to be a loving family. Let's look at the "Religious Agenda": they want to force others to believe as they do; they want control over anything they disagree with; they want to tell people who to love, who to marry and what god to believe in. Hmmmm. A "Gay Agenda" that's about acceptance, love and the ability to live your life as you choose or the "Religious Agenda" that's about intolerance, oppression and dominating your fellow man. Those horrible queers and their oppressive agenda! How dare they ask to be treated as people! Evil!

Now, I'm not saying every religious person is like that. Far from it. The problem is that the one's who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, the one's who really do love their neighbors and practice christian love don't get air time or political contributions. It's the radical nutjobs with their "it's morally wrong" crap that shout the loudest.

Since it deals directly with the idea of "family" let me speak, for a moment, on marriage. The rightwing wackos like to claim that marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman. Having a bit of recent experience with marriage and divorce I can tell you without a doubt that these people are absolute hypocrites. Marriage is not sacred in this country and it never has been. I spent two hours...two tiny hours...at divorce court and probably saw at least fifty couples getting their divorces finalized. The divorce rate in America hovers around 50%...and straight people are the only ones getting married (for the most part)! There's a new movement going around trying to ban divorce to preserve the sanctity of marriage. Sign me up! Let's see how many marriage sanctity hypocrites jump on that bandwagon.

A family is at least two or more people who love, cherish and take care of each other. Who's fucking who among the adults in that family really has no bearing on the definition whatsoever.

So before you decide to spout off about morality, try looking to your own morals first. Try remembering what Jesus said and did in your sacred texts. Jesus was about love, peace and harmony among people. Not hatred. You cannot pick and choose what to believe in the Bible if you are to call yourself moral and christian. It's all or nothing, kiddies.

(PS: I know wherefore I speak. I grew up in the church as a preacher's kid. I spent the first twenty years of my life buried in that miasma of hypocrisy and the last eighteen digging myself out.)

"Two adults and their children?" My eldest daughter is in kindergarten and is friends with a boy whose father died recently. He and his widowed mother count as a family in my book and teachers should stay out of this minefield.

Here are your broad definitions of Family: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/family. It is a good one that covers most all combinations of family.

@daddy files: I tried to not bring this to an argument over whether or not it is right to be gay. Yes, you have the right to be gay if you choose. Wanting things to be changed because you chose to be gay is wrong. My wife and I have openly gay friends. I do not hold the fact that they are gay against them, but I will not give them special consideration when it comes to our plans due to the fact they are gay.

As for how has a Gay person affected me personally, it may not be negative in your opinion, when it comes to explaining why this man wants to be with another man and not a woman to my eight year old.

There is one simple fact in life; children may say some of the smartest thing with out knowing it. The fact that most children, unless brought up within a “same-sex” relationship, will naturally ask why and think something is not right should make you think about the situation. Being gay is not natural, the human race can not continue with out opposite sex relation ships, and small children know this instinctively.

I will not hate anyone for choosing to be gay, but when they want to force the idea that it is perfectly normal to be gay is where I find problems.

The fact that you have to specify “Same-Sex Marriage” vs. “Traditional Marriage”, and take the time to teach this concept to children is where I have an issue. Children understand the basic concept of marriage, with out this basic concept there would be no children to understand it. The understand marriage as two people who want to be together and have children. As soon as they understand that children can only come from a man and a woman together they start to question the entire “Same-Sex Relationship.”

I don’t like the fact that I have to tell my children it is ok for those two men or those two women to be together like that when I know that it is against nature and the basics of continuing the Human race.

The wisdom of children? That's what you're invoking to justify attacking gay marriage. Geez.

Children, who think eating boogers is perfectly normal. Children, who think babies come from your stomach. Children, who believe that a fairy comes at night and gives money for teeth and that an obese man someones breaks in and leaves presents. THAT'S how you justify attacking gay marriage. Children KNOW NOTHING that they aren't taught.

So if they're confused, it's a reflection of how they were raised.

i'm totally on board w gunnymo. also, people don't 'choose' to be gay, just as they don't 'choose' to be straight. if i woke up tomorrow and said, 'hmmm...i'll think i'll be w a woman today' it will happen because i 'chose' it. i know that won't be the case, because as hard as i might try, the fact is, i am attracted to men. what makes us attracted to the opposite sex? because we have a choice? no, it's a chemical reaction, something that stimulates our brain, and our senses. that usually comes down to a person's makeup (genetics). gunnymo said, "A family is at least two or more people who love, cherish and take care of each other." sounds like a good explanation to me. when a teacher defines 'family' is she defining her own views? the school's views? i also agree w patrick...kids only know what they are taught. my kids have a lot of tolerance and respect for those who are different. their family consists of many races, sexual orientation, religions, and they love them all just the same. to them, they are ALL family.

Patrick D: Thank you. You nailed it. Out of the park.

Zerzix: I just wrote an 2 page response debunking everything you just said. And then I erased it. Because trying to convince a judgmental, close-minded bigot that they're wrong is an act of futility. To think that you are judge and jury on what is "natural" and "right" is downright laughable. And frankly, the only proof I need that you're dead wrong (and you are dead wrong) is my family photo. Which includes my gay aunt, her wife (because Massachusetts has the good sense not to discriminate against others) and their five children. Five artificially inseminated children. Five artificially inseminated children who turned out to be loving, tolerant, accepting, intelligent kids who will one day forgive the hostility and hatred spewed at them by your kids, who are apparently being brought up to believe anything that is different is wrong.

If you want to pray for someone, pray for them.

2 things. First, I think the teacher shouldn't have even gone down this road for the reasons everyone has already said (divorce, death, same-sex, etc.). Second, I find it very interesting how tolerant everyone here is, even though apparently that is the desired outcome.

WOW...what happened to some of my fellow dad bloggers...Zerzix...WOW...you are totally entitled to your opinion...but you are better off not trying to justify them because frankly it does not support you.
I do have choices as a gay man. To be with a partner I am attracted to or not be with anyone. You are saying it's a choice. This MUST mean you could choose to be with a man. Is that correct?...Then that would call you bisexual. Are you attracted to both men and women Zerzix? Did you just simply make the choice to be with a woman because you find it morally acceptable? or because you are simply not attracted to men?...Plesae think about this concept.

Joeprah, I like this post. I think the teacher should not have even said two adults. My definition of a family is....Individuals that live together and love each other and support each other.

Peace and Love,
paul(mytwodaddies)

Jeez, took you long enough Paul.

But actually, back to the main point in Joeprah's column...

I'm curious why the homosexual agenda comment came up at all? Did the teacher specifically mention gay families? Or was it just assumed by some that she was catering to gay people with her vague definition of family? Because the only thing I do agree with Zerzix on is the fact that single parents should've been more upset by her comment than anyone else.

@daddy File: We agree? let me wirt this one down.

Wow...I came into this conversation way to late. I think the only thing the teacher did wrong here was specify "two adults". There are plenty of families that are single parent families and in saying that she might have confused or hurt some of the children, but it could have been an honest mistake on her part.

Daddy Files,
As much as I have disagreed with you before I have to say I am always very impressed with how you stick up for gay people's equal rights. ...it feels weird to even have to type that since a person is a person, and we should all have equal rights. I will never understand the people who feel the need to say otherwise, as you said...what have gay people done to negatively effect anyone in anyway ever? I can not think of one thing.

Zerzix
It is people like you that make this world such a painfull and hurtfull place. You are telling these people that they do not have the right to live basically. That because they are gay they should not be allowed to love anyone, to be with anyone, to have children, or to have a family. You are close minded, you are ignorant, you are hurtfull, and just plain cold hearted and I can only pray that your children will see through your bullshit and form decent opinions of their own. Because the last thing this world needs is more people like you.

@Veronica: That is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that you can be gay if you want, that is your right, you can love who or what you want, that is also your right. It is not your right to try to force people to think it is normal.

What is next for alternative Lifestyles that will start being pushed when they "Gay Agenda" is fully realized? Beastiality? just some food for thought there.

I have to agree with Paul here, I would define a family as people who live together and love and support each other. That also affords respect due to single parent homes and families with step parents and children.

Keith @ Almighty Dad had a great post this summer about about 10 Life Lessons Taught Through Music and his #2 was 'People are People' by Depeche Mode. I think that really fits here. Here's a link to the post in case you're interested:

http://www.almightydad.com/education/10-life-lessons-tought-through-music-–-with-a-bonus

Wow. Just when you think it can't get any lower.

Look carefully everyone. This is why you shouldn't believe the bullshit 'tolerance' that most Christians tell you they have for gay folks. Because deep down, they equate gay people with people who f*ck animals. That's how screwed up their heads are.

"Beastiality? just some food for thought there." [sic]
Sorry, dude, I don't eat shit. And that's the 'food' you're peddling.

@Paul: I repect your choise and will defend your right to make it. I am not attracted to men, I personaly find it repulsive, but you do not, and thats all that really matters in your life. There are man out there that are more outspoken than I am, and often more active in the "Anti-Gay" movement than I will ever be.

I just feel that this "Alternative Lifestyle should not be force as normal. It is an alternative to the normal, just as Alternative-fule is an alternative to the common fule used. You choose you life style and all that may come with it, as I choose mine and what it may entail.

I wish you, your partner and your family the best. God Bells you and your family.

Others

I am the only one here being civil. I have not resorted to name calling or profanity. I stated my opinion and belief. I tried early to say "lets just agree to disagree" and end it. You all want to push the subject, which I tried to change back to the main subject, the definition of family.

I am not bashing gays here; I am even saying they have all the right to be gay if they want to be gay and love who they want. I am not bashing religion, I even said that God is the only rightful judge in this case.

If you wish to continue to flame and drag this out, which will not change my opinion or belief, feel free. I am done with this one for now, I will see you all in the next topic that you want to flame me in.

To all who flogged my husband for his close-mindedness, I want to remind all of you that not all Christians are the same. I fall into that category and so does Zerzix, even though you won't believe it. I do not think the gay lifestyle is normal, but I do not judge any of that because like Zerzix, I believe God is judge over everyone, not us. Many Christians approve of gay-bashing and that gays are doomed to Hell. We aren't the judges here. Zerzix and myself don't particpate in any hatred-fest against gays. We just simply think that it isn't a normal lifestyle-We didn't coin the phrase "alternative lifestyle", but someone did. That is what we think about it, but to be in this mindframe you have to at least believe in God in some part..We Christians, as I have said before, are not all the same. Jesus was very open-minded. I am that way. I have gay friends, and I have never had a problem with it. I never had any desire to change them either. You guys seem pretty close-minded about Christians. Look to your own problems before making one comment into a catacalism.

You've been civil?? You just compared homosexuality to having sex with an animal. If that's your idea of civil, then God help us all.

Reesa: You said "I do not think the gay lifestyle is normal, but I don't judge any of that." Are you kidding me? YOU JUST JUDGED ALL GAYS! You judged their lifestyle to be abnormal, and in the same breath you try to tell everyone you're not judging. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

And then you say you have gay friends. And to prove how great you are, you claim you don't try to change them. Well holy shit! Do you want a medal?? You're not supposed to want to change your friends. Telling people you aren't trying to change your friends is not really something to brag about. Friends automatically accept each other no matter what. But apparently you want a special pat on the back because you're accepting of the "abnormal" lifestyle.

The hypocrisy is stunning.

@daddyfiles Do you need a hug?

@ressa You hit it on the head when you said "you won't believe it" - At this point, no matter what is said, no one wants to change their mind.

Can't we all just get along.

@scojo4 As long as it's not a hug with "gay intent." I wouldn't want to be abnormal.

HOLY CRAP! I am trembling as I write this....this post, and comments, have REALLY troubled me. The vile hatred that exists...the hypocrisy...lets get one thing straight (pun intended)...NO ONE CHOOSES to be discriminatred againt, to be beaten, and even KILLED for being Gay. NO ONE!

Joe, you know how I feel...the Teacher was being PC...and I have to commend them for that....their working environment is completely hostile when it comes to parents wanting their children to learn "their way"...fine...homeschool them...get them out of the way of children and parents who want a good education....Education that entails every aspect of life, history...AND yes, even religion!!!

Personally, I want my child to know the differences in religion...I want her to make her OWN choices as to which religion she is comfortable with...if any. Ironic, don't you think? We DO NOT CHOOSE to be Gay, but we DO CHOOSE our religions and religious beliefs....not to mention how we interpet the bible(s). Why else would there be THOUSANDS of religions?

To each their own...and Yes, that (should) include EVERYONE...regardless of, well ANYTHING!

I cant type anymore, I am so FRIKKIN PISSED OFF! How dare you!!! Opinions are one thing. Accusations, speculation and pure hypocrisy are another!!! Period!

Family is love. Love is all that matters. Whether you are a single parent, gay parent, straight parent, have children, are alone in the world or whatever, it’s love that is important. If you look at family in the broader sense, we are all a human family. We need to love everyone.

More practically and specifically, I think it is important that teachers be as respectful as possible to all types of families but also extremely important that parents talk to their kids about what they learned in school and what they believe.

As far as my two cents on all the specifics of this back and forth . . . as we all know, but some refuse to accept, being gay is not a choice. I cannot choose to be gay anymore than I chose to be straight. That is just who I am, how I was born. I lived in Moscow for two years and talked to people about the extreme persecution of homosexuals in that country (and in many others) – would someone choose to be sent to Siberia to die if it was indeed a choice? That’s ridiculous.

But, if it were a choice, so what? As daddyfiles said, I have yet to hear one legitimate reason how homosexuality or gay marriage adversely affects anyone. Don’t tell me that you think it is wrong without telling me why. But, nobody can because it is not wrong.

One of the problems I have with religion is that many people (not all) who have blind faith and fear of god are just that, blind and afraid. They ignore the facts and don’t take in the truth because they need to believe what justifies their faith and their prejudice. It may be futile to try and convince someone who thinks being gay is a choice because of a blind religious conviction but, I know if we teach our children the truth – to love and respect all and not judge - religious bigotry will die off with future generations (or should I say it will evolve away).

My spouse and I had this very conversation prior to enrolling our daughter in preschool. We didn’t want her to be picked on because she doesn’t have a Mommy. She does have a Mommy, she just doesn’t live with her. Family is a very precious thing, regardless of the makeup of the group. I find this whole discussion very enlightening, and supports our decision to talk to Anna’s teacher about her family.
For more on us, check out my blog:
http://jesushas2daddies.blogspot.com/

Might I just throw out that people are strange?

No really, they are. Out of the things I would have to explain to a child, homosexuality is not my greatest worry. I have to explain why pets die, why parents have to work, why birds have wings and people do not, why some people are smarter or faster or stronger than others, why people have different religions, why we fight, why we go "have to" to church.

All of these things need to be explained, but all of them are natural. Some are sad, some are joyous, but at the end of the day we teach our children to accept life as it is, and to not judge.

Putting aside /what/ we base on conclusions on, let me grant you everything you've stated @Zerzix. Let's presume homosexuality is a choice, that it is unnatural (in terms of reproduction, etc), and even (oh my gosh!) that it goes against your religion.
But you know what? The use of electricity and medicine is against some religions. It is unnatural and it is a choice. But that does not mean we keep electricity from becoming a standard for technology, or stop promoting the development of medicine for those who want it. Breeding hundreds of animals, caging them, and slaughtering them by the hundreds for their meat is unnatural, and it's a choice, and it's very very commonly accepted.

What does it mean to force you to accept what you believe to be wrong? Does it mean we turn you gay? No, that's not what we're doing at all. Does it mean we force you to be friends with gays? No, not even that. Does it mean we need you to recognize that gays are human beings too, and, so long as they do not hurt anyone, ought to be respected as such? Yes.

You argue you are for tolerance, but against gay marriage. What are we really trying to achieve? We want to allow people, yes even homosexuals, to love and care for one another. That is all. That /is/ tolerance.

Regardless of whether you believe it is immoral, what harm would such a thing do to you? Far less than the harm caused by, say, the pollution from your car.